Pastor John & Diane Hagee
James 3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
Hi all,I recently sent the following email to my Board of Directors (and Pastor George of Sonrise Church in San Antonio). You may find this interesting.
Overview:
In the last few weeks, I sent the Open Letter (Petition) to Pastor Hagee & his staff (I don't know if his staff (Cornerstone Church in San Antonio) was able to receive them; may have been censored). This "open letter"/petition was sent with the names of slightly over 100 signatures (see: http://raydehler.com/fgn/ for the "open letter"/petition, signatures, and all info).
I also sent about 100 postcards to pastors in the San Antonio area, near Pastor Hagee's church, to inform them of their local brother's problem. I got only one response/feedback, from Pastor George of Sonrise Church, and it was negative. He reached me by phone and we talked for about 15 minutes. He sent an email follow-up below. I'm responding to that here. To my Board of Directors: feel free to talk to him, with or without cc'ing me. To Pastor George, feel free to talk with my Board of Directors, with or w/o cc'ing me.
By the way, I'm still trying to contact Pastor Hagee by phone, as well as his wife and son, who are on his Board of Directors. In addition, I'm still trying to contact another of his Board Members, Allan Hume. I'm leaving daily phone messages for them to call me back. A representative for Pastor Hagee did call back yesterday and said that there is no way for me to talk to Pastor Hagee, in person or over the phone. He mentioned that a lawyer will be contacting me. Evidently, Pastor Hagee has time and (donor) money to talk to me through a lawyer, but not directly as Jesus told us to do in Matt. 18. (I'm not impressed.)
My response to Pastor George's email is below. Following that is his original, untouched email:
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My Response:
Dear Pastor George,
Thanks for your concern. At least you care enough to write. It has been my experience that most Christians don't know or don't care (lukewarm, not hot or cold).
You say I have not followed through correctly on Matt. 18 because I did not confront Pastor Hagee IN PERSON. First, I tried by phone, and was denied, and hung-up on. Based on your suggestion, I tried again, and was specifically told (by a different representative) that Pastor Hagee would not talk to me, even in person. He does not take walk-ins. I was informed that I would be contacted instead by his lawyers. If you have any concrete suggestions on how to better proceed according to Matt. 18, I am more than ready to try it! I will continue to try to get to him in person by attempting to reach his Board of Directors (his wife, son, and Alen Hume).
You say I didn't not get permission from my Pastor to confront Hagee. First, I did tell my Pastor (Clark Tanner, BCC.org). In our brief conversation, he seemed to agree that it was a shame regarding what Pastor Hagee was doing in the way of compensation. However, I see no need to get his approval before confronting someone in sin... Matt. 18 and nothing in the Bible I'm aware of says that I need to. Secondly, another BCC pastor (Greg Wright) is on my Board of Directors, of which I have also briefly discussed this with. There was no objection to my course of action.
You say I'm using a petition which is not in the Bible. I'd say it's a manifestation of Matt. 18: the church confronting the brother in sin. Pastor Hagee is in sin, I believe, and the church is the body of Christ, of which every believer is a member.
As for recruiting other witnesses to confront Pastor Hagee, you say it is wrong to not first get their Pastor's permission/approval. Look, we are all brothers. Peers. Please read and meditate on Matt. 23:9-11 (link).
You say I have defined my own definition of greed. Meanwhile, on the phone, you admit that no compensation value is ever too high. I think you demonstrate a lack of critical thinking and reasonableness. First, I think the Bible is crystal clear about how Preachers should not be lovers of money. Also, the only reason why Pastor Hagee gets away with this is because he has a family-controlled board, not truely made up of his peers, as legitimate organizations operate. On top of that, I show actual data to compare his compensation with other media ministers. The difference is quite glaring. Did you see the charts and graphs? I think you must be quite calloused to not see that taking over $1 million from donors for personal gain is wrong. You referred to some articles that seem to explain all of Pastor Hagee's deeds, yet I can't find them, and you are unable to supply them to me. I fail to see what you are basing your logic on.
You say that churches are autonomous, and are therefore beyond reproach by other churches. I think that no church is beyond rebuke. I believe that all believers are members of the one true church, Christ's body. Christ is not divided. We may be divided by space, but there's no reason to be divided in spirit, for the sake of dividing. No church operates in a vacuum, as if to be islands unto themselves.
I may have offended many. A cancer patient may also be offended to hear that he needs a painful operation. But it's necessary to get healing. You may also be offended if you were woken-up in the dead of night. But if you were woken because of a fire in your house, hopefully you'd appreciate it, and not go back to sleep cursing, as the flames destroy you. You also fail to see the damage that Pastor Hagee is doing to the ministry and church, validating unbelievers who say "preachers are just greedy."
Pastor Hagee may have good standing in his community. It's irrelevant. Jesus confronted the Pharissee's often, and they were also in good standing. "Good standing" is not an exception to the Matt. 18 process outlined by our Lord. King David was also in good standing when he was confronted by the prophet Nathan (2 Sam 12).
I myself am open to Matt. 18. If you think I am in error, please provide Scripture. I'm trying to apply scripture (Matt. 18 and 2 Tim. 3:16 (link)).
Please help me to follow Matt. 18 better if you have any suggestions.
...Bernie
Dir., FreeGoodNews.com
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Pastor George's original email:
Dear Brother Bernie,
I spoke to you on the phone the other day about my feelings concerning your call for John Hagee to repent for what you say is the sin of greed. This e-mail is to call for your repentance for not practicing the Matthew 18 principle in a true Biblical context and for not working in conjunction with the leadership of your local church but rather through a para-church group of which you are the founder and director.
You have shown yourself to be ignorant of Biblical church structure and authority.
Mistakes you have made:
You did not attempt to come in person to San Antonio to confront Pastor Hagee You did not get the endorsement of your own pastor to confront this issue.
You are using a petition which I can find no where in the Bible to be Biblical in Matthew 18
You have rallied other believers in your cause apart from the authority of their local churches. (If you were a pastor and these where people under your leadership as there pastor and they agreed with you then maybe)
You have made it your responsibility to define greed in the life of a person who lives in capitalistic, free market society and then pass judgment over this person who through his own work draws a salary that is recorded through the IRS records (greed is an issue of the heart not an amount earned, even in the ministry)
You have forgotten that local churches are autonomous and that if the members of Cornerstone Church are supporting their pastor then what right do you have to judge there pastor.
You have a little over 100 signatures of people who agree with you but you have offended many other Christians with your personal attack of a brother in good standing in his community, church, family, nation who has won countless people to the saving knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
I believe it is you who should repent and I for one have already forgiven you for actions and I am praying that you will reconsider your campaign against John Hagee.
Sincerely Yours,
Pastor George RamirezSonrise Church
San Antonio, Texas
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